The search for the lost trail of British ammunition development continues.

 We haven't been too busy since the last round of testing loads last summer. I have however not been completely idle. My brain is functioning even if my body feels the passage of time more harshly.

I have been looking at even heavier projectiles in 7mm and I have enough 158 grain Grom projectiles from Privi Partisan to make it worth continuing.

This is for this summer along with the continuing 150 grain testing.

In the mid 1960's the advent of the 5.56 round and the AR 15 adoption by UK forces for special in theatre use along with Nato testing of helmet penetration testing showed that a high velocity projectile of 4 to 5 mm driven at sufficient achievable velocity was far superior to existing 7.62 x 51 ammunition.

As part of this testing an EM2 and a rifle No4 were rebarrelled to a 6mm projectile using a cartridge which was made using existing .280/30 cases necked down to accept a 6.25mm projectile.

Research requests have turned up information courtesy of one of Peter Labbett's publications that the bullets used were in fact what we would know to be .243:

One form of rifling considered for the 6.25 round had a minimum land diameter of 6.06mm and a groove diameter tolerance of 6.24-6.27mm - but I do not know if this was the form used for the barrels of the 2 EM2 auto rifles converted to 6.25mm

6.25 mm with several weight variations. Only ball, dummies and proof known. Case headstamp was RG date 6.25mm

Regarding your enquiry. Please see attached pdf – scanned page taken from ‘Assault Rifle Ammunition 5.6mm to 11mm Calibre’ by Peter Labbett, published March 2000, where he states that ‘various bullet designs existed with this cartridge with weights varying between 5.9 grams and 7 grams (91 grains and 109 grains).’  

 

The ECRA database on this cartridge gives Bullet diameter data on 7 specimens as: 6.30, 6.23, 6.25, 6.23, 6.22, 6.26, 6.15.

To look at the developing of this round it means that I need to get some dies, a reamer, headspace gauge and a barrel for testing. I am on the case but in the meantime I have ordered in some existing dies to carry n the work.

I have recently received another set of .280/30 dies as mine are now on long term loan and a set of 25 Souper to work on a .25-08 using a .243 case as a parent. Why? Because I need something to keep me busy whilst waiting for other things to be done. That and the original .25-06 is a good round and I'm looking to see if that can be matched or improved using a shorter case. I know its another rabbit hole.

I am not as yet for some strange reason interested in recreating the 4.85  for reasons I have yet to elucidate but its somewhere in the future. I am however interested in the alternative theory that the .280/30 case could have been considered as a parent case for a sub 6mm projectile. This would in effect have made a 43mm cased version of the .22-250. Whether or not I lose my marbles on the way remains to be seen but this means that I will hopefully be using a single receiver (a Sako L691) and three barrels one in .25, one in .243 and one in .22 to get these loads looking like something of possible use.

150 grain testing

 Well it turns out that I had completed some 150 grain test, results were disappointing using H4350 which now seems to be no longer available

Wootton 150 grain projectile test day Sierra Match kings H4350

Powder weight MV 1 MV 2 MV 3 MV 4 MV 5 Average ME

32 grains           2275 2292 2295 2271 2248     2276     1725

32.4 grains         2200 2235 2257 2235 2211     2227    1652

32.8 grains         2266 2335 2263 2268 2275     2281     1733

33.2 grains         2093 2098 2155 2126 2088     2112     1630

33.6 grains         2127 2142 2117 2201 2143     2146      1534

34 grains            2151 2184 2153 2133 2158     2155      1547

34.4 grains         2185 2163 2204 2162 2184     2179      1581

34.8 grains         2172 2160 2167 2204 2190     2178      1580

35.2 grains         2242 2237 2244 2253 2250     2245      1679   

35.4 grains          2244 2263 2231 2301 2271    2262      1704

Much more usable results came from using the allegedly temperature sensitive CFE223

Battle 150 grain projectile test day Sierra Match kings CFE223 

Powder weight MV 1 MV 2 MV 3 MV 4 MV 5 Average ME 

34.1 grains       2387 2354 2358 2341 2373   2362.6    1858 

34.5 grains       2401 2451                              2426      1960 

34.9 grains       2411 2421 2475                     2435       1975 

35.3 grains       2503 2504 2508 2518             2508      2095 

35.7 grains       2474 2486 2421 2380 2460    2444      1989 

36.1 grains       2556 2546 2518 2479 2515    2522      2119 

36.5 grains       2533 2584 2562 2564 2563    2561      2185 

36.9 grains       2609 2651 2622 2635 2643    2632      2307 

37.3 grains       2654 2645 2635 2610 2644    2637      2316 

37.7 grains       2722 2659 2666 2630             2669      2373

Some gaps are due to either failure to feed (much reduced now) or despite the new batteries the chronograph playing up!

At last an update from Paul

 

So, the above rifle was purchased by myself back in 2016. After I got it back home my life became hectic with the arrival of a new daughter. Then, the packing up a house for a move to France. So I never got the chance to re-size brass as you can not buy .280 British brass cases. So much to my annoyance I was not able to shot it before leaving England. The plan was then to take it to France (a country with a great shooting culture). However the wifes employers had other ideas, seeing as they rented our accommodation, they banned my keeping a firearm in the house.

So I was forced to leave them in the uk with my great friend and RFD, Tim. Fast forward from 2016 to 2022.

I was able to make twenty rnds at a friends house using his press and scales, mine are again packed as we are off again with the wifes’ job. Same employer as before so no chance of taking anything shooting related with me.

I decided on loading the rnds with CFE223 with a 139gr Sierra matchking projectile. The amount of powder varied between 36.5 to 38grn. I used an original .280 Brit for the col so I didn’t record the col. I was unable to record the speed as my chronograph is located in another location.

My rifle break in procedure is very simple, clean the barrel then just shoot. I fired 4x5rnd grps. The following pics show these group. 

Pic 1

First five are lower left, second five are on the black.

Pic 2

Third grp

Pic3

Final grp unfortunately blew the patch off the second 5rnd grp, so it is essentially a 2x5 rnd grps.

Hopefully with the better weather  the other rifles will be tested and reported on here!

Still no closer I'm afraid.

I am pretty much the same boat as last time. Not yet strong enough and not done the research to start loading 150 grain bullets with CFE223 yet.

I will get there, along with the keepering work I need to do this year.

Apologies

 I’m apologising for not posting anything for a long time.

I’ve been unwell and the road to a full recovery is sadly very long and difficult to do so I may find a happy medium where I can still indulge myself with shooting sports although I may not be able to fully participate as I did before!

The good news is (especially if you are my insurance broker) that I am still alive and haven’t lost any more marbles than before. I will endeavour to post about the cartridge revival as we go

More tales of Stalking, Roe this time

I have been busy since the Muntjac stalk. Busy developing a 150 grain load. Sadly due to a lack of suitable powders it hasn't gone anywhere yet. I did however continue to give the cartridge some rigorous field trials.
On one of my first post Pheasant season trips around the farm on the quad I disturbed a Roe Doe stood alone on one of the crop field. She stood still and looked at me.
A quick mental check (yup still in season) and I killed the quad, slid off and promptly killed the Doe.
For those that dont know Roe Does tend to be pregnant at the end of their hunting season, this one was an exception meaning I had shot a yearling or she was barren. Only looking inside would reveal.

As it happened she was a yearling, not pregnant and had been forced away from the family group to start out on her own. The clip below is footage from the farm, its the same field but at an earlier time and maybe is even the doe that I shot.

The doe on the stubble

 Quite an exit wound

Cold enough to butcher outdoors

Back to the house and a quick look inside to see if we can see the entry and exit wound

The damage is fairly clear

All in all a bit gory but informative none the less, no recovered bullets as yet, I suspect that will happen eventually.
A little later on in the year I had the opportunity to stalk a buck. I finished my night shift early enough to be on the farm at dawn. I parked up and went for an armed ramble;

This was a magnificent looking Buck. I had followed him for about half a mile when something spooked him, he darted off about 200 yards but luckily stopped to see what was behind him. Fatally for him I was using a gatepost as a rest and I had almost given up, in fact I think I had consciously given up when the deer presented enough of a target area for my subconscious brain to make my trigger finger work. The shot was as almost as much a surprise for me as it was him. Down he went.

The subsequent investigation and hanging in the chiller revealed him to be a good quality buck that I had taken whilst quartering away, the shot entering the heart and lungs from behind the left shoulder and exiting cleanly through the lower throat;

The shot Buck

The salute

The Buck looked excellent and was hung for a week in the chiller before butchering, a mature Buck just starting to go back. I posted some picks online and was advised to get the head scored.

 This was him boiled and dried out, I haven't attempted to stain the antlers or bleach the skull and I also have the lower jaw too. He certainly looked impressive and a good buck to take after his career of fathering was possibly coming to an end.

This was the clincher so at the next Game Fair I resolved to get him measured proffessionally

It was worth it indeed

I spent the week with a real grin across my kyke!

I have been out and taken more since, some good cull bucks with switch antlers but thats for another day!

So the drive to do some field testing became too much to resist

In fact it was a happy coincidence that a friend was having his 50th birthday that year and instead of a boring present I offered to buy a weekend Muntjac Stalking up on the Cambridgeshire/Suffolk Borders.
I expect most of you know the Muntjac, for those who dont its a small elusive, aggressive dog sized deer that barks alarm calls, is territorially aggressive and a bit of a bugger to stalk. The does if not with fawn at heel are likely to be pregnant and the bucks sport short antlers and sharp tusks. They breed like rabbits, within 6 weeks of giving birth a doe will be fertile again and likely to breed

The only rule is not to shoot those with a fawn at heel and shoot everything else, this means year round attempting to exterminate both sexes.
I booked the weekend with a very nice stalking guide and provided Rob (who shoots left handed) a left handed Tikka T3 in .243, mounted with a Doctor Optic 8x56 and a B&T sound moderator.
We rocked up and met the guide who took us to a field he has for zeroing. Rob hadn't fired this rig before so I proved my rifle was on, the guide was very interested being a 7mm 08 man himself and Rob proved to the guides satisfaction that he could hold a good central group.
After that we headed off onto some stubble fields with woodland on both sides. I was put into a High Seat and briefed. The Guide took Rob off with him.

The foliage was fairly thick being September and I could only see about 40 yards which was enough. After about an hour or so I spied a doe crossing the path into a small clearing. I waited and settled my heart as much as I could (as if, it was pounding blood in my ears I was so excited) and tried as hard as I could to take a clean shot;

The video clips above should give a good view of how overgrown the view was.
The doe dropped to the shot. I sat and tried my best to wait the 15 minutes recommended but excitement and the thought that the hot day would spoil the carcase meant I probably waited long enough to reload before clambering down, at least I'm honest about this.

The doe was down and dead, perfect entry wound but the bullet deflected and exited through the spleen, it didn't spoil the meat fortunately but came close. A note to make on future deer I thought.

The video explains the load used, a 120 grain bullet. 

I returned with the do to the high seat and turned to see a Buck cross the path/clearing, climbing the high seat showed that he was further away and out of sight, ah well never mind.

I waited until it was too dark to see in the wood and as instructed walked out with my kill to the RV, an electric supply pylon base where the Guide had kindly left me his quad sticks. Now I dont usually use sticks, bipods are enough of a hindrance so I sat down on the stubble in still shootable light quite contented with my afternoon and it grew dimmer. Dusk was falling and I looked across the field I saw movement.

I leapt to my feet, grabbed the sticks and lined up on the Muntjac hoping it was the buck I hadn't been able to get earlier.

I guessed the distance to be over 150 yards but less than 300 yards and also made a snap call on the light, if I could see him clearly and the cross hairs then I would take the shot.

I did and he flipped over and died. I forget in my excitement to pace out the distance and decided to do it on the way back. The round (another 120 grain) had entered the buck (yes it was a buck and in my mind that buck) in the right shoulder smashing it and taking out the heart.

I paced it back and it was a 255 paces back to the firing point. I make that to be close to 240 yards using my old army taught method.

They make a lovely couple here together, I gralloched and looked up to see Rob and the Guide driving over. It seems they were only in the next field and apparently my shots had spooked the deer Rob was lining up on, how to deflate my joy in one easy go!

The next morning we left the B&B after what only seemed like 3 hours sleep and definitely no breakfast.

This time I was dropped off near a high seat overlooking a field of stubble and Rob was driven about 5 miles away!

It was a spectacular morning, I could see nature waking up around me and my limited by mist view was an expanding horizon by the minute.

The field edge was only about 150 yards away, that meant anything in view was within point blank range as confirmed by the antics of the night before.

So the light came up, a Buck wandered out and started to look for his breakfast on the stubble and I gave him the good news

 A great entry wound on the shoulder and a clean exit wound;

As I was sat there resisting the temptation to start the gralloch another buck walked over and sniffed this chap, sadly buck fever got the better of me and I missed just underneath 

A very interesting specimen indeed, a happy teddy bear was I

The proof of the pudding in this case is the boiling down of the head!

He and his fellow Muntjac certainly tasted really nice. Robs dear did you ask?
Well sadly he saw plenty but nothing presenting a shootable deer all weekend. Sorry Rob and thanks to the Suburban Bushwhacker for the recommendation https://suburbanbushwacker.blogspot.com/